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this is need to know real talk about the\h
reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon\h\h

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from australia ross coltart\h
from the u.s bryce zabel

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i'm ross coulthard talking to you from a beautiful\h
southern highlands just south of sydney in\h\h

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australia and my co-host is bryce disable and\h
i'm here in los angeles a little north actually\h\h

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where we've been enjoying some uh some rain of\h
recent times so that's been very good for us and\h\h

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and uh life is going on here in la and and uh ross\h
and i have just now i think ross we have proved\h\h

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that we have a global presence already so that's\h
great a transcontinental media investigation team\h\h

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looking at the phenomenon of uaeps and we're\h
calling them uaps aren't we bryce we're calling\h\h

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them uaps because ufos carries too much stigma\h
i think uap's unidentified aerial phenomena is\h\h

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a good compromise don't you reckon well you\h
know it's funny because i've you know i've\h\h

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got a little uh medium site where people write\h
articles and we've asked the readers what they\h\h

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think of ufo versus uap i have to say the hardcore\h
readers favor ufo but the government the united\h\h

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states government in particular favors uap so i'm\h
happy to be bilingual on this and go either way\h\h

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so why are a couple of serious insect\h
investigative journalists i'm an author i'm\h\h

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an investigative filmmaker i make documentaries\h
you might have read my book in plain sight which\h\h

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was published this year by harpercollins and i've\h
also made a documentary called the ufo phenomenon\h\h

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and bryce you're pretty damn accomplished yourself\h
you know the two of us uh have i guess bonded a\h\h

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little bit over the fact that we've both been in\h
the investigative reporting game me less recently\h\h

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i suppose than you ross because you're in it right\h
now um and ross uh your book in plain sight has\h\h

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made quite a kerfuffle if you will in the ufo or\h
uap community this year because it was really a\h\h

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terrific book that set the the stage for where we\h
are at when um when it came out i remember reading\h\h

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it and thinking finally somebody has written\h
the book that i wish i'd written so i thought\h\h

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i thought that was pretty good i think it's\h
probably a good idea right now if we're talking\h\h

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about need to know to ask ourselves if the show\h
is called need to know what do people need to know\h\h

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about it okay well the reason i wrote my book\h
was because i recognized there was a need for\h\h

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people to be able to come into this subject cold\h
and have a quick primer to understanding why it\h\h

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matters and i guess that's the purpose of this\h
podcast that both of us feel and recognize that\h\h

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the public isn't yet being well served by existing\h
programs that i think assume too much knowledge i\h\h

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think i think we have to start from basics i think\h
the thing is ross both you and i are broadcasters\h\h

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by training and experience and broad means you\h
want to speak to a broad audience and a lot of\h\h

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what's happened in the ufo uap field has been sort\h
of the echo chamber the the niche part of things\h\h

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where people who already know certain things talk\h
to other people who know the same things and they\h\h

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tread over some of the same information\h
and i think because of your book and and\h\h

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my own desire to be a little more broad-based\h
about this we see this as not just another\h\h

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podcast but as a podcast that is meant for\h
the average person to tune into and say\h\h

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i know this is an important story and i'd like to\h
know more about it i think the public would also\h\h

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like to know a little bit more about you bryce\h
and you're hiding your light under a bushel and i\h\h

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was quite intimidated when i first got approached\h
by you because you're a very well-known hollywood\h\h

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producer you've made the incredible tv series\h
dark skies which to me evokes all of those dark\h\h

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conspiracy theories about ufos aliens amidst and\h
governments concealing dark secrets do you believe\h\h

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that stuff well i believe it was a good story uh\h
and certainly that's why uh i first wrote about it\h\h

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uh well thank you those are kind comments i\h
started out can i say that i don't i don't\h\h

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want to be rude but i i actually do think both\h
of us believe and this is why we're doing this\h\h

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both of us believe at our heart of this there is\h
a conspiracy there has been a cover-up sure there\h\h

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absolutely has i tell people it's easier for me to\h
prove that there's been a cover-up than it is to\h\h

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prove exactly what ufos and uap represent because\h
i've actually been involved in the cover-up by\h\h

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by people that are that are uh you know in charge\h
of it i think and and so i do think that uh\h\h

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if you give any serious attention to this and i\h
think both of us have over the years you come to\h\h

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the conclusion that the united states government\h
has been telling people for a long long time\h\h

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nothing to see here and don't worry about it and\h
we're not looking into it because everybody's safe\h\h

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and that's not what they've been doing that part\h
your book brilliantly laid out this year because\h\h

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it pointed out that that wasn't the truth in\h
fact more than that they've ridiculed the subject\h\h

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matter this is the thing that was the eye-opener\h
for me as a journal i came into this thinking\h\h

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i'm going to very quickly be able to prove that\h
what we're talking about here which is essentially\h\h

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anomalous objects strange-looking things that are\h
seen not only in the sky but also increasingly\h\h

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underwater in orbit strange objects that\h
are now being recorded on sensor systems by\h\h

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very sophisticated mainly us military planes but\h
also aircraft and sensors all over the world which\h\h

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government now admits it can't explain you and i\h
came into this price thinking i was going to prove\h\h

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very early on this was just some black project out\h
at area 51 at the nevada test range we could all\h\h

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go home and get on with the next story but that\h
didn't happen most people that are are very well\h\h

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versed in this topic did start as skeptics i think\h
that that's true for myself as well i started out\h\h

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extremely skeptical um i kind of wanted it to be\h
true because i was writing about it in you know in\h\h

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terms of writing a movie and a television series\h
but i wanted i wanted it to be true for that but i\h\h

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didn't know until you get into it but that allows\h
me to kind of drag us back to why now why are we\h\h

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recording this inaugural podcast on december 17th\h
of 2021 well it's a special anniversary because\h\h

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many people uh certainly know where they were when\h
jfk was killed if they were alive back then as\h\h

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their parents did knowing about pearl harbor and\h
as our children know about 9 11 and the rest of us\h\h

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and for people that are involved in the ufo and\h
uh ap research field and and frankly people who\h\h

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have made themselves aware of the topic december\h
17th is when the new york times finally put it on\h\h

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the front page pretty much what you just said it\h
was amazing because i can remember reading that\h\h

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article and going oh my god the most influential\h
newspaper on the planet is essentially talking\h\h

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about a secret ufo investigation program that\h
had been going on inside the pentagon for several\h\h

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years which investigated navy videos taken by\h
fighter pilots that had engaged with these objects\h\h

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which it could not explain that was a paradigm\h
shift really wasn't it it was a shocker and\h\h

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uh for those uh people who are listening to us\h
who are who probably had a passing awareness of\h\h

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this this uh i guess event this this uh this\h
story that broke it's been something that has\h\h

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sort of upended everything uh if you want to look\h
at ufo disclosure progress over the past 75 years\h\h

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it's been almost glacial but then along comes\h
this new york times article and in four years\h\h

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wow i mean things have really gotten on rails\h
right now and and and in fact as we're about to\h\h

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talk about 2021's been one of the most impactful\h
years ever in 2022 looks pretty much the same way\h\h

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so let's talk about that moment that was described\h
in the 2017 december 2017 article there's a pilot\h\h

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called dave fraver who's told to go out and find\h
a location and look to see what's there over ocean\h\h

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just off baja california and what he finds\h
when he gets there he looks down from 28\h\h

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000 feet and he sees what the uss princeton a\h
guided missile destroyer has been registering\h\h

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on its very sophisticated radar systems he\h
sees an object hovering just above the ocean\h\h

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it's incredible it i mean the whole thing reads\h
like a suspense novel and um and i'll be honest\h\h

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with you um i have a pilot that i've just\h
written called uap and i based it primarily\h\h

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on what would happen when something like that\h
uh sort of interrupts the government's train\h\h

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of thought on things and i think that the what's\h
happened over the these four years is that we've\h\h

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realized that what the new york times described\h
in that groundbreaking article wasn't a one-off\h\h

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it wasn't just a very special event it's something\h
that these these navy pilots and frankly air force\h\h

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pilots have been saying happens all the time there\h
are navy pilots right now that's and and radar\h\h

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people that say oh yeah this stuff happens almost\h
daily and i want people to think about that for\h\h

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a second these things that that don't appear to\h
have wings they have no visible form of propulsion\h\h

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uh they can hover they can go 10 000 miles an hour\h
they can go from 80 000 feet down to twenty eight\h\h

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thousand feet or even two thousand or two hundred\h
feet turn on turn on a dime without changing\h\h

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velocity yeah it's capable of cloaking themselves\h
like a klingon destroyer it's quite extraordinary\h\h

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they can examine the it is so extraordinary and\h
it's amplified in its uh i don't know if this is\h\h

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a word in its extraordinariness because the truth\h
of the matter is if it's happening all the time no\h\h

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wonder we're talking about it right now no wonder\h
that the wheels are coming off this cover-up that\h\h

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you mentioned uh just uh recently so let's just\h
quickly summarize what we've described there\h\h

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because this is really important for our listeners\h
you're going to be hearing us talk occasionally\h\h

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about something called the five observables yes\h
and bryce gave them a quick summary that there are\h\h

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they're objects that seem to be able to display a\h
capacity to propel themselves using a technology\h\h

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that sounds like anti-gravity there's no\h
visible exhaust on the propulsion system\h\h

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when they put infrared sensors on them you\h
can't see the kind of glow that you'd expect\h\h

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to see from say a jet fighter's rear end they're\h
capable of instantaneous acceleration they don't\h\h

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wind up for a start they go from north to 10 000\h
kilometers or 10 000 miles an hour in an instant\h\h

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and for dave fraver that day the people who\h
were on the radar systems in the uss pristin\h\h

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princeton they'd seen these objects at 80 000 feet\h
and in point seven eight no in seven eighths of\h\h

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a second it went from eighty thousand feet to\h
hovering above the surface of the ocean that's\h\h

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hundreds of thousands of miles an hour thousands\h
of g-forces there's no technology is there right\h\h

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if we had human beings inside a craft that did\h
that they would pretty much be liquid by the time\h\h

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that the that event was over so it does kind of\h
raise questions about well i mean it does raise\h\h

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questions about what we're looking at because\h
it's not it doesn't sound like it's uh people\h\h

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flying around in these things because we couldn't\h
do it right now what's very clear is this is not\h\h

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known acknowledged correct american russian or\h
chinese technology the pentagon's made that clear\h\h

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just let's quickly summarize these\h
observables we've talked about the\h\h

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capacity to do instantaneous acceleration\h
hypersonic speeds they can cloak themselves\h\h

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they can evade radar and jam sensors and the\h
final fifth one is that they're trans medium\h\h

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they've been recorded traveling from air to sea\h
moving it hundreds of knots underwater and they're\h\h

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also being detected in orbit in outer space\h
moving from our atmosphere it can go from space\h\h

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uh to atmosphere to water so it's kind of ironic\h
isn't that we started uh off tonight by saying\h\h

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well ufo is kind of an old term unidentified\h
flying object and the government came up with\h\h

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a new term uh unidentified aerial phenomena and\h
now it turns out even that may be outdated because\h\h

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they're not just aerial phenomena are they there's\h
something else that we're looking at and and it's\h\h

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disturbing a lot of people right now it's the\h
reason it has traction is that it isn't just\h\h

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uh your your friend who likes to talk\h
about ufos who's talking about this now\h\h

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now it's senators and congressmen and and\h
very highly uh sourced uh intel people\h\h

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there are a lot of people who since the\h
december 2017 new york times story have thought\h\h

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they've asserted that there's a deliberate\h
slow trickle coming out from government that\h\h

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this is the beginning of disclosure that we're\h
suddenly going to get told about a new reality\h\h

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i must say i'm not so sure well you know we made\h
park company a little tiny bit on that one ross\h\h

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because i i'm more of a i i sort of think once the\h
horse gets out of the barn a little bit on this\h\h

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thing it's hard to get the horse back in the barn\h
and i see a world where yeah there there's been\h\h

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a lot of uh secrecy involved in this going back\h
to the summer of 47 when the flying saucer craze\h\h

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actually began and i have been as frustrated as\h
anybody by that and it's clear that denial and\h\h

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ridicule the twin pillars of those two things\h
have managed to keep this thing bottled up but\h\h

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now that we're all talking about it together and\h
now that senators are demanding action and reports\h\h

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are being written that are public it's going to\h
be hard to i think completely turn the dial down\h\h

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but we you know reasonable people can disagree so\h
let's talk about some of those key events i mean\h\h

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obviously we're talking on the anniversary of the\h
new york times story four years ago but since that\h\h

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story this year has been a huge year which is why\h
we felt it was important to do this year in review\h\h

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and probably the key event that took place\h
this year first off was the 25th of june\h\h

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report that was tabled in the congress by the uaep\h
task force which made a report to congress that i\h\h

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think even though it was slightly dull really in\h
the reading it was actually a momentous document\h\h

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for its significance i i have to agree uh\h
just to bring the listener in on this thing\h\h

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congress demanded and gave 180 days in december of\h
2020 during the trump administration that there be\h\h

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this report written by the office of the director\h
of national intelligence and they were given\h\h

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180 days i actually got a calendar out when that\h
happened ross and i realized that it was june\h\h

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25th and i kept seeing my journalistic colleagues\h
out there talking about early june or late june\h\h

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and i i thought where's your calendar people\h
and it literally did come out on june 25th and\h\h

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uh and just as kind of a sidebar to that and\h
then i'd like to get into the meat of that\h\h

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but um i had written a book myself uh on this\h
topic uh called a.d after disclosure which would\h\h

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be how the world's gonna change after we finally\h
all admit some of this stuff is is real and\h\h

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authentic and one of the things that uh i i put\h
in that book along with my co-author richard dolan\h\h

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was that if there was going to be a disclosure\h
event it would come on a friday after four o'clock\h\h

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when the stock market had been closed down and uh\h
the media would have the a team sent home and the\h\h

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b teams would be in charge for the weekend and\h
guess when that report came out it came out on\h\h

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friday june 25th after four o'clock so i i sort\h
of feel like the people who wrote it knew it would\h\h

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be more substantial so i do want to follow up on\h
what you just said ross because i think it's it's\h\h

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very true people have tried to dismiss that report\h
but i'm only talking about activists who call it\h\h

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something like a nothing burger it was not not\h
in the least the key thing for me is that it\h\h

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acknowledged that the videos that had been shot\h
by the us navy three of which have been publicly\h\h

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released could not be prosaically explained you\h
know they couldn't give a mundane explanation for\h\h

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them they couldn't say it was a weather balloon\h
or a cloud or a misidentified aircraft or or some\h\h

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kind of atmospheric phenomena that was benign they\h
they genuinely admitted the pentagon investigators\h\h

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admitted after several years of investigating\h
that these videos were showing a phenomena\h\h

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that was real people who are a part of that team\h
are actually suggesting that these are quote craft\h\h

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right vehicles are the words that lou elizondo the\h
former head of the ufo investigation program in\h\h

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the pentagon has used he talks about vehicles he\h
talks about craft he's talking about intelligently\h\h

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controlled objects doing things that human science\h
as it acknowledges at the moment as is officially\h\h

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acknowledged at the moment human science just\h
can't do it's far beyond our known physics far\h\h

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beyond i want to just again bring our listeners\h
up to speed here this report which was six months\h\h

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in the making and came out in june june 25th\h
uh came out in two versions one was classified\h\h

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and that was briefed and given to the intelligence\h
committees of the united states congress uh both\h\h

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the senate and uh house and then the public\h
version was shorter it was basically six pages of\h\h

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content nine pages if you count the fluff around\h
it six pages of content here's why i say it's not\h\h

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a nothing burger uh what you've talked about is\h
what i call the big picture which was it confirms\h\h

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these things are real well the government's really\h
danced around that for years and and now they're\h\h

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saying okay yes they're real they're probably\h
craft and we don't know what they are all right so\h\h

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that's number one that's a big admission but\h
also this report does two other things that\h\h

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i think are profound it basically says we\h
don't think these are made in america in\h\h

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other words translation we don't think it's black\h
budget american technology from the department\h\h

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of defense and then the third thing it said is\h
we don't think that our adversaries are making\h\h

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them which would be china or russia to which i\h
have to just say i agree folks because while you\h\h

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might think america china or russia might be able\h
to make something crazy right now i don't think\h\h

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they were making them in 1947 and china didn't\h
even have an air force back then absolutely and\h\h

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there's one more thing that i thought was\h
significant internet report which is that\h\h

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for years the default explanation from here in\h
australia our air force the british air force and\h\h

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your american air force has always been they've\h
always kind of avoided the question when people\h\h

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ask are the ufos real they always say whatever\h
they are they're not a threat to national security\h\h

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and they're no threat to flight safety and the\h
crucial thing that i think often gets overlooked\h\h

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in the mainstream media and most of the coverage\h
of this issue is that the report to the congress\h\h

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actually admitted that it is a threat to flight\h
safety because some of these pilots especially on\h\h

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the east coast i've spoken to one of them they've\h
been buzzed by these weird objects a sphere\h\h

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in one case with a square inside a translucent\h
sphere with a kind of charcoal square inside an\h\h

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intelligently controlled object engaging with his\h
aeroplane at hypersonic speeds doing weird stuff\h\h

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that i'm told some of this is recorded on video\h
and the navy has admitted it cannot explain this\h\h

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i frankly bryce and this is i guess why you and\h
i are doing this program i just don't understand\h\h

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why many in the mainstream media including\h
our chums at the new york times aren't\h\h

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devoting full-time runs men and women to\h
covering this beat it's an important subject\h\h

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i think missions the admissions that have been\h
made by the pentagon i think are earth-shattering\h\h

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well i i think that they probably will get in\h
the game in a bigger way across the board it\h\h

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might be like watergate for a while uh woodward\h
and bernstein kind of owned that story and then\h\h

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everyone else saw it was a real story and\h
they got involved in it so that may be\h\h

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what is going to happen and that may be my answer\h
for why i think that we're going to get some kind\h\h

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of disclosure but i just wanted to uh we you know\h
we said we were doing this for all the reasons\h\h

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that you've already laid out but we also said it\h
was kind of a year in review so i just wanted to\h\h

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point out i wrote down the number one uh i mean\h
the story we're talking about the preliminary\h\h

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report on uap right but it's only number two it's\h
the number two story of the year because this\h\h

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is the number one story of the year absolutely\h
the gillibrand rubio amendment and i i and\h\h

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the only reason i and i'm going to just set you\h
up for this because i think the evidence that\h\h

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the preliminary report was way more important than\h
people gave it credit for is the fact that these\h\h

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congress people and senators like gillibrand and\h
rubio who got the private classified briefings who\h\h

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saw some of the videos that you're talking about\h
got scared and decided to go big and not go home\h\h

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you know what i didn't think i would ever see in a\h
piece of draft legislation for the us congress the\h\h

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words unidentified aerial phenomena it's historic\h
the gillibrand amendment which to give all due\h\h

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credit was pushed largely by a senator democratic\h
senator from new york kirsten gillibrand is it\h\h

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gillibrand or gillibrand by the way we say i think\h
we say gillibrand but you know with our australia\h\h

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america thing i don't know we're going to bump\h
into this many times i'm sure in the future\h\h

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so the pentagon in anticipation of this congress\h
legislat this legislation coming before congress\h\h

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it announced it was creating an unpronounceable\h
acronym a i o a o i m s g i'm not even gonna\h\h

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bother trying to explain what it was but it\h
was the pentagon's effort to try to head this\h\h

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off and what they were trying to do was say no\h
no we're going to investigate ufos we're going\h\h

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to investigate the phenomenon um you know just\h
here's our here's our office just leave it with us\h\h

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and mercifully thank heavens sanity has prevailed\h
because for the first time in 75 76 years since\h\h

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this issue first surfaced after world war ii the\h
congress is actually putting in writing in draft\h\h

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legislation the most stunning requirements\h
i just cannot believe what it's it's as\h\h

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well as requiring the collection of data on uap's\h
unidentified aerial phenomena my favorite part is\h\h

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that firstly they're required to coordinate\h
with allies and partners of the united states\h\h

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that means my government australia canada\h
it means france england this is going to be\h\h

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international there's going to be an international\h
collaboration if america wants it it'll get it\h\h

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don't you agree i agree um i and and it is uh\h
unprecedented and seriously folks uh it's it's\h\h

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worth reading because you as ross pointed out\h
the more you read of it you say wait a second\h\h

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are we really they're funding it they're telling\h
there there's ev there's a language in there\h\h

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about a fast reaction team to go and investigate\h
these things i mean who would have thought that\h\h

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incident response yes the secret the secretary\h
of defense shall ensure that this ufo uap\h\h

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investigation group has adequate personnel with\h
the requisite experience equipment transportation\h\h

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and other resources to respond rapidly to\h
incidents it's kind of like a an x-files\h\h

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investigation team it sounds extraordinary well\h
and and also um because a good report can get\h\h

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the ball rolling in certain cases what's i think\h
also profound about it is that it's demanding a\h\h

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yearly public report so uh they're gonna have to\h
build on what they started last year this year\h\h

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sure and basically it's it's order it's ordering\h
the defense department i think kicking and kicking\h\h

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and screaming not only to make public reports\h
but private classified reports to congress on the\h\h

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technical and operational characteristics origins\h
and intentions of unidentified aerial phenomena\h\h

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um uh let me go on well russ it also says that\h
we want to if that it's looking to find out\h\h

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if we have actually any of this technology in\h
our possession which would mean crash wreckage\h\h

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so they're saying they want to develop and test\h
a scientific plan theories to account for the\h\h

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characteristics and performance of unidentified\h
aerial phenomena that exceed the known state\h\h

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of the art in science and technology including\h
in the areas of propulsion aerodynamic control\h\h

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signatures structures materials sensors\h
countermeasures weapons electronics\h\h

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power generation and to provide the foundation\h
for potential future investments to replicate\h\h

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any such advanced characteristics and performance\h
i mean they're not talking about alien spaceships\h\h

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but by golly they're coming pretty close\h
you know i think we could have just taken\h\h

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10 minutes and had you read the damn thing\h
because that would have been pretty profound\h\h

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on its own and by the way part of it involved\h
in that is it also says it wants reports on\h\h

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uh biological effects that these things might have\h
had that were injurious to people who saw them\h\h

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well this is the cool part i mean in um in\h
the draft legislation it requires that no\h\h

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later than the 31st of october next year 2022\h
and every other year after that through to 2026\h\h

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there shall be an annual report and it will report\h
not only on all unidentified aerial phenomena\h\h

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events that occurred during that year but also\h
as you say analysis of geospatial intelligence\h\h

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signals intelligence human intelligence so that's\h
dragging in the national oceanographic institution\h\h

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the nro the national reconnaissance office the\h
nsa all of america's top spy agencies are being\h\h

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ordered to provide data to the defense department\h
now of course for this topic to have been buried\h\h

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for as many years and again going back to 47\h
that's a lot of years that'll be 75 years in 2022\h\h

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that this thing is this uh thing has been going on\h
in our our lives for it to have been buried that\h\h

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deep uh it does mean that people who are in charge\h
of whatever the investigation has been over time\h\h

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haven't been as forthcoming about it as we would\h
have liked them to be so it's not that it's not\h\h

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that there won't be people within the department\h
of defense and some of these intel departments\h\h

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that won't need to be drag kicking and screaming\h
to the table now i think it's important at this\h\h

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stage to acknowledge that everybody politely\h
acknowledges that whilst it has been declared\h\h

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by the congress and in these reports that there\h
is no american technology that equates with this\h\h

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technology and there's very likely no russian or\h
chinese technology that does they still hold open\h\h

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the possibility that it might be some foreign\h
adversary so there's a requirement here that\h\h

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they identify any incidents or patterns regarding\h
unidentified aerial phenomena that indicate\h\h

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a potential adversarial foreign government may\h
have achieved a breakthrough aerospace capability\h\h

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but i don't really think to you that they\h
genuinely believe that is it just a sop for\h\h

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the debunkers look uh i'm sure your sources tell\h
you the same thing my sources tell me which is\h\h

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nobody seriously believes that uh most people\h
say it's a smoke screen right now to sort of get\h\h

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to to get the camel in the tent i guess\h
you know the idea that we have to talk\h\h

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about foreign adversaries who might have\h
developed this uap because that's what\h\h

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the public can handle right now now bryce a\h
few months ago i got a tip from a very good\h\h

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us intelligence community insider who told me\h
that the united states was actually actively\h\h

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involved in trying to bring down one\h
of these objects to actually bring down\h\h

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one of what they were describing to me as a\h
vehicle a craft an intelligently controlled object\h\h

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and i waited for somebody in the us government\h
to deny this and to challenge me on it nobody did\h\h

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and what blows me away is that here in this draft\h
legislation and this kirsten gillibrand amendment\h\h

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there is a reference to the requirement that\h
they provide an update on any efforts underway\h\h

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on the ability to capture or exploit\h
discovered unidentified aerial phenomena\h\h

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and as you've pointed out earlier it also\h
requires an assessment of any health related\h\h

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effects for individuals that have encountered an\h
identified aerial phenomena because i'm told that\h\h

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some of these pilots and other people who've had\h
these experiences have suffered adverse effects\h\h

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from their engagement with them it's interesting\h
because i don't think you meant to step into this\h\h

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but that is the intersection of of what breaking\h
news and my life in hollywood because the first\h\h

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movie i ever wrote about ufos was called official\h
denial it aired on the sci-fi channel in 1993\h\h

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and it was about shooting down a ufo a government\h
plan to do that called operation forced encounter\h\h

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and i will tell you without getting it we don't\h
have time to get into it now but i was contacted\h\h

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by somebody who claimed to have been in the\h
government at that time who said that that was\h\h

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something they were very interested in so i i and\h
that was 20 that was over a quarter of a century\h\h

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ago so i have to think if they were thinking about\h
it then they're they're thinking about it now\h\h

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and the other thing they're requiring is that\h
congress be told about the number of incidents\h\h

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of unidentified aerial phenomena associated\h
with military nuclear assets including strategic\h\h

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nuclear weapons and nuclear-powered\h
ships and submarines and that's\h\h

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i think very important because one of the things\h
we've seen down here in australia is we we've\h\h

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got facilities that are part of your country's\h
strategic nuclear deterrence the pine gap facility\h\h

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which is where you monitor icbm launches from\h
satellites and we also have the north west cape\h\h

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haraldi holt naval communications station where\h
frankly so really wacky wu has been seen by\h\h

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many many witnesses huge craft glowing orbs\h
objects going into the sea it's a really\h\h

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lively area for strange phenomena and this nexus\h
between nuclear weapons nuclear weapons facilities\h\h

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and the phenomenon is very real very real\h
and and i i have to say when i first read\h\h

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your book this year uh one of the i thought it\h
accomplished two things very well the first was\h\h

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it made me uh relieved that i didn't have to\h
prove to anybody anymore that this wasn't just uh\h\h

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united states citizens americans going a little\h
bit crazy and and that it wasn't really happening\h\h

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anywhere else because the truth of the matter you\h
make that case very strongly and also i think you\h\h

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also make the case that the united states uh\h
uh has a an ally in australia in trying to\h\h

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maintain its nuclear force uh projection and\h
and one of the things that uh has got people\h\h

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in congress running around like their hair is\h
on fire is this nuclear connection between uh\h\h

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unidentified aircraft and nuclear weapons and that\h
one uh again goes back to what you said previously\h\h

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uh the report says we should be worried about\h
that connection that there is a danger there\h\h

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so congress is going to get a report in october\h
next year but there's no guarantee is there that\h\h

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we're going to get told the full unclassified\h
unexpected version isn't there a risk here that\h\h

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what we're going to see is another project blue\h
book snow job where you've got the you've got\h\h

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the military collecting data and only letting\h
the public know the stuff where they can debunk\h\h

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i just you know i think we're moved beyond that\h
i could be wrong i mean um and and time will tell\h\h

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but i don't think uh the the whole issue has\h
sort of parked itself anywhere uh while that\h\h

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report is going to come out in october this is\h
an active issue and people are talking about it\h\h

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and i just wanted to add one thing to this um\h
to try to dimensionalize this for our audience\h\h

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the name of the amendment is the gillibrand\h
rubio amendment uh kirsten gillibrand is the\h\h

330
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senator from new york marco rubio the senator\h
from florida they both serve on the intelligence\h\h

331
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:39,040
committee in the senate what do they have\h
in common marco rubio ran for president in\h\h

332
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2016. kirsten gillibrand ran for president\h
in 2020 these are ambitious politicians they\h\h

333
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:52,640
know how to get elected they know how to avoid\h
issues that would cause them not to get elected\h\h

334
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:58,800
and they have both decided that the uap issue\h
is of significant importance that they can put\h\h

335
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,400
their names on an amendment about it and and talk\h
openly about it and i don't think they checked\h\h

336
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:11,200
their ambition their presidential ambitions at the\h
door i think they think maybe not for 2024 but i\h\h

337
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,960
think that they think this is going to be part\h
of the public discourse in the fairly near future\h\h

338
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,040
and they want to be able to say i was there early\h
and definitively and i was right on this topic\h\h

339
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,000
now i can give you a bit of an insight into that\h
because while i was doing my research for my book\h\h

340
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:35,680
i i was talking to some of the congress people and\h
staffers who were receiving classified briefings\h\h

341
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:42,320
and what's interesting is that since the new york\h
times story there's been very secret briefings\h\h

342
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:48,400
held in skiff's secure compartmentalized\h
information facilities in the bowels of the\h\h

343
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,440
the pentagon and also in the congress which have\h
briefed certain senators certain congressmen\h\h

344
00:35:53,440 --> 00:36:02,160
and their staffers on what exactly the uap task\h
force fund and i haven't got a lot of the detail\h\h

345
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,600
but what i do know is it's rocked the world\h
view of the people that i've spoken to\h\h

346
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:14,880
it really was disturbing for them because they\h
were hearing from pilots who i've also spoken\h\h

347
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:21,200
to that this isn't just a one-off these aren't\h
just isolated incidents and they're not just\h\h

348
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,080
to deal with those debunkers who always say oh\h
why does it only ever happen in america it doesn't\h\h

349
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:33,120
just happen in america this is a phenomenon that\h
is occurring all the time all over the world but\h\h

350
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:41,760
because america has now developed incredibly good\h
phased array radars radars that don't work like\h\h

351
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,280
the old ones you used to see on the black and\h
white movies where they're like a clock they've\h\h

352
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:51,200
got a beam that goes out and hits an object\h
that only gives you an idea of it being solid\h\h

353
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:57,840
it also gives you an idea of its size and its\h
shape and even its mass in some cases and these\h\h

354
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:03,920
technologies have allowed the pentagon the u.s\h
navy in particular for the first time to start\h\h

355
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:11,600
seriously engaging with a phenomenon that we know\h
has been around for many many decades at least\h\h

356
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,640
since the end of world war ii it's a terrific\h
point you're making and and if you think about\h\h

357
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,520
it one of the things that's been said over these\h
years many times is skeptics say well where's the\h\h

358
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:27,760
evidence right you've got a lot of people seeing\h
things in the sky but where's the evidence well\h\h

359
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,480
part of the answer was there was some evidence and\h
good evidence and we can get into that in future\h\h

360
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:38,720
shows but the real answer now is particularly\h
since 2000 on you could say that the state of\h\h

361
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:45,360
our ability to perceive our world that's around\h
us has increased exponentially our technology\h\h

362
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:51,920
is better than ever to see what's going on and\h
that technology is on board our aircraft it's a\h\h

363
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,920
it's on board these these carriers that are\h
watching the skies it's it's in our satellites\h\h

364
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:05,200
and our ability to pull all this together is what\h
congress is basically asking the military and the\h\h

365
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,040
intelligence departments to do and that could be\h
a big game changer well one of my sources for my\h\h

366
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,160
book guy called bob fish didn't mind going on\h
the record he was working in lockheed martin's\h\h

367
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:25,520
facility on in california and he was shown\h
telemetry data from satellites dsp defense support\h\h

368
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:31,520
program satellites and this would be nearly\h
30 years ago now so this is 30 years ago sure\h\h

369
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:40,000
and he was shown how this satellite recorded an\h
object coming in front of the satellite changing\h\h

370
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:49,120
course changing velocity and then entering earth's\h
atmosphere not a terrestrial human-made object not\h\h

371
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,960
a meteor or a comet that's not how meteors\h
or comets behave a complete mystery and so\h\h

372
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:02,080
the thing that fascinates me is that this has\h
been a mystery for not just the last few years\h\h

373
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,040
it's been and if you go through and this is the\h
thing that blew me away about your fantastic your\h\h

374
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:12,640
government honestly as a journalist i just despair\h
it how secret my government is you you guys have\h\h

375
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:19,600
got the most incredible archives the cia library\h
is a it's a godsend for openness and transparency\h\h

376
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,920
and i know we all think the cia is a very sort\h
of dark agency that doesn't reveal very much\h\h

377
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,920
but the stuff it reveals the stuff your defense\h
department reveals about the history of this\h\h

378
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:37,600
phenomenon the fact that it's been around since\h
at least the end of world war ii and probably a\h\h

379
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:44,400
lot lot earlier the pilots that i've been talking\h
to who are flying off the east coast of virginia\h\h

380
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:52,720
they tell me they go up now almost every time\h
they go up they're seeing as many as 50 to 100\h\h

381
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:59,600
objects unexplained objects and i've confirmed\h
with louis lozando who was the guy who ran the\h\h

382
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:06,480
pentagon ufo investigation program there are\h
other videos incredibly clear videos in the\h\h

383
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:12,960
possession of the us military which haven't yet\h
been released and in the words of louisando if\h\h

384
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:19,600
the public saw them they would blow your socks off\h
well i think we're going to see them eventually\h\h

385
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:25,920
and i think that is why we're going to have a more\h
fulsome disclosure uh going forward because once\h\h

386
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,960
the evidence is before you you're you know are you\h
going to believe your lying eyes i think you will\h\h

387
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,160
you're going to have to say something for sure is\h
going on and and you're going to want answers so i\h\h

388
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:43,360
will say this what's going to be the thing of the\h
fairly near future is taking all those documents\h\h

389
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:49,040
you've talked about but there's a hidden history\h
out there that our history books once we sort of\h\h

390
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:54,320
admit that this has been going on for a long time\h
we're going to have to turn some historians loose\h\h

391
00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:00,320
and rewrite a lot of these history books because\h
some stuff's been going on under the radar if you\h\h

392
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:06,000
will for a long long time can i make the point\h
though that i i do think it's important to be\h\h

393
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,480
skeptical i'm not i'm not i'm not entering\h
into this though with rose tinted spectacles\h\h

394
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,880
everybody thinks that when you start talking\h
about uaps you're talking about little green men\h\h

395
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:24,080
aliens i don't know what it is i don't either what\h
we're doing what we're doing in this show and what\h\h

396
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:30,560
i think the mainstream media needs to start doing\h
is acknowledge that there is a genuine mystery\h\h

397
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:37,440
it can no longer be ridiculed can no longer\h
be stigmatized or treated with taboo it's\h\h

398
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:44,400
real and the crucial point is that the reports\h
to congress the secret briefings to congress\h\h

399
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:50,080
by the pentagon and more importantly this\h
just extraordinary gila brand legislation\h\h

400
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,560
that's going to go into the defence appropriations\h
legislation later this year hopefully\h\h

401
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:02,880
it acknowledges the phenomenon is real in black\h
and white the pentagon is saying this is real\h\h

402
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:09,520
we need to take this seriously we need to\h
investigate it i i i agree with everything\h\h

403
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,640
you just said and i want to say uh as we\h
sort of wrap up our inaugural episode here\h\h

404
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:21,840
that that's why we're here that's the mission\h
statement if you will of need to know which is\h\h

405
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:26,800
we're not waiting for other people to break their\h
stories or whatever we're going to look into this\h\h

406
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,200
on our own and we're going to do it transparently\h
we'll be sharing information with our listeners as\h\h

407
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:40,960
we resolve it and and even some of the mysteries\h
and we're trying not to be credulous observers\h\h

408
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:46,800
who believe everything that get is out there i\h
certainly don't and i know you don't uh but we're\h\h

409
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,640
also going to try to be the kind of people who\h
can take a lot of facts in and sift through them\h\h

410
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:58,720
and spend more time doing it than a very busy\h
person and if you give us your 30 minutes or your\h\h

411
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:04,400
45 minutes whenever we have a chance to put one\h
of these together we won't waste your time we're\h\h

412
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:12,320
going to try to tell you the story as directly and\h
as powerfully as we can it's a compelling story\h\h

413
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,280
and whatever is going on it certainly seems\h
like it's something we all ought to be paying\h\h

414
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:24,800
attention to i can't wait to see what the\h
future holds next year in 2022. me too bryce\h\h

415
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,960
me too listen ladies and gentlemen that's\h
need to know i'm looking forward to talking\h\h

416
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,800
to you next time and i'm sure bryce so are\h
you uh i say the same thing good good night\h\h